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LeAnne
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Sep 16th, 2006 13:48 |
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Diabetics often get something loosely called, "frozen shoulder". Has anyone on the MP experienced improvements with this problem? Someone I know is looking at very extensive surgery.
LeAnne
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Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07
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Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sat Sep 16th, 2006 14:50 |
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LeAnne,
The medical term for 'frozen shoulder' is adhesive capsulitis. It is due to inflammation resulting in pain that causes the person to guard their shoulder to avoid the pain. The result is loss of mobility.
I developed this condition a couple years before I began seeking treatment for other inflammatory symptoms. I was treated with ibuprofen (an NSAIDs) and physical therapy (ultasound and stretching exercises). It was a painful process but I regained 75% mobility, as much as could be expected I was told. I continued to have intermittent shoulder pain.
After one year on the Marshall Protocol, my shoulder was painfree and I had 100% mobility in that joint without any special exercises and complete resolution of pain. I suggest continue with PT, pain meds as needed and the MP. and avoiding surgery.
Surgery is done when physical therapy has failed. It is invasive, painful and only partially successful. Your friend has nothing to lose by trying the MP first.
Best,
Meg
P.S. This is not a particular phenomenon of diabetes but diabetes is a result of Th1 inflammation so your friend has at least two reasons to try the MP.
The Benicar blockade should provide some palliation for the pain of your shoulder inflammation but your immune system may still be killing CWD and causing increased inflammation even without antibiotics.
Adhesive capsulitis occurs when the shoulder is not moved to avoid the pain associated with acute inflammation. This inflammation can occur without an injury, as happened to me.
Physical therapy will improve the range of motion (ROM) in your shoulder but will do nothing to resolve the inflammation. My 'frozen shoulder' responded well the PT (yes, it was quite painful at times) with 80% ROM return. the acute pain had gradually faded before the PT was needed to restore ROM but I still had intermittent pain in that shoulder. It wasn't until 2 yrs or so into the MP that all pain resolved and I was able to move my shoulder with 100% ROM.
You can do both.....regain some range of motion with PT and attack the underlying cause with the MP....at the same time. It's fine to use palliative measures for pain control. Regaining the use of your shoulder will be an unavoidably painful process but well worth the effort.
It is prevented by moving the affected shoulder to maintain range of motion despite the presence of pain.
It's fine to use pain medication for palliative relief of pain exacerbated by your physical therapy to regain ROM.
IMO, your best course is to continue the MP with an increase in Benicar because it will protect your shoulder joint from further inflammatory damage.
For relief of symptoms due to immunopathology, rather than palliative medications, we recommend management of the MP meds. <<<
Later add: The symptoms you describe in your shoulder and arm are very likely due to inflammation and should be given a chance to improve with the MP. I have a history of bursitis in a shoulder with resulting adhesive capsulitis (frozen shoulder). The pain returned as immunopathology but I now have full function without pain.
Massage & Physical therapy Have you considered an osteopathic or chiropractic examination of the limb? Sometimes, manipulation can help.
Ask Dr if you can do range of motion exercises.
My immune response / symptoms are too strong. What should I do? ..
Any time that your symptoms are going past tolerable: please check the precautions and the options one at a time to assess: do not hesitate to use any of the adjustments suitable to you. Tools to check: << if having any problems please check if you need to make adjustments in any area, and feel free to ask on the Board. thank you.
Why and when do you recommend taking Minocycline frequently?
also When and why should I use Valium?
see pain control tips ...
What degree of healing FAQ re fibrosis.
We advise folks to postpone elective surgery as long as possible. Th1 inflammation interferes with the healing process and many folks discover they no longer need surgery once the inflammation is resolved. "...using anesthesia to be put under and then the Dr. manipulates the arm to break the adhesions" is a surgical procedure. It may be noninvasive but it will have a profound impact on the tissues in your joint and you cannot be guaranteed the outcome will be positive. See Adhesive Capsulitis of the Shoulder.
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Chris
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Sep 16th, 2006 20:26 |
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LeAnne,
Both my wife and I had frozen shoulders. Mine reacted strongly to Phase 3 meds in terms of herx, so your friend really should look to the MP.
Suggesting that 'frozen shoulder' is infectious might not go over well; but you can point to success here. I haven't quite got to 100% like Meg, but there is only an infrequent twinge now and again to remind me that I should exercise a bit more.
Chris & PTMKaren
Add July 07: If I haven't mentioned it before, the bursitis in the right shoulder is gone, except for a minor discomfort when sleeping on that side.
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sarcoid diagnosed 1991, probably started 1983
D25/1,25: Mar04 17/80, Sep04 12/50, Nov04 8/23, Jan05 9/39 May05 6/27; in phase3; fevers, muscle pain, tinnitus, depression, mental-fog, IBS, carpal-tunnel, fatigue, osteopenia
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MrsKeeper
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Sep 16th, 2006 20:59 |
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Oh dear. Since I have been in phase 2-3 I have developed rotator cuff problems and now have adhesive capsulitis in both shoulders. A small amount in my right one and a lot in my left shoulder. I just went to a PT for my first visit on Thursday because it has gotten so painful and difficult to use my arms.
At first I reckoned my pain was herx related and waited for it to get better. But it has only gotten worse, especially when I'm herxing. But I have little range of motion in my left arm remaining.
Since I'm having trouble with getting my D level to budge downward I'm wondering if this is just a new symptom of my disease then and not injury related? (I haven't DONE anything in months so I don't know what I could have done to my shoulders.) My therapist thinks she can help me and I need any help I can get right now so I'm going for it.
Add: April 07: My pain and range of motion has greatly improved with the osteopathic physical therapy I've been having. I haven't used my TENS unit for weeks now.
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Chris
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Sep 16th, 2006 22:24 |
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Janice,
Definitely find a good PT. They've got a lot of tricks to free up the joints; it only seems like they are disciples of Torquemada.
And do the exercises. the Phase three combos helped.
Chris
____________________
sarcoid diagnosed 1991, probably started 1983
D25/1,25: Mar04 17/80, Sep04 12/50, Nov04 8/23, Jan05 9/39 May05 6/27; in phase3; fevers, muscle pain, tinnitus, depression, mental-fog, IBS, carpal-tunnel, fatigue, osteopenia
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Posted: Sun Sep 17th, 2006 01:09 |
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Janice,
I had no injury to my shoulder when it became painful. The name for that is bursitis and it's due to inflammation with or without injury. I recall my mother having a similar problem years ago.
I, erroneously, thought that time would resolve the pain as it often does. But the pain was so nasty that I was forced to limit my movements and that is what caused the joint to become 'frozen'.
Physical therapists have techniques and exercises to try to regain some of the range of motion. If that doesn't work, surgery is recommended to forcibly break apart the adhesions. When I went to PT and took NSAIDs, I had about 50% shoulder mobility. Like Chris said, it's a painful process but keeping the joint mobile while you heal the inflammation is important.
Consider your shoulder pain a signal Herx symptom and adjust your antibiotics accordingly to maintain tolerable Herxing.
Best,
Meg
Later add:
January 2007:
About five years ago a massage therapist pointed out to me that my cervical spine felt very odd. When I asked my PCP, she said it appeared to be a 'curvature'. I had no symptoms at that time and I don't believe I've had this curvature all my life.
A few months ago, I had a period of severe spasms involving my left, anterior neck muscles. Lately, I've had intermittant muscle pain (sometimes severe), involving the muscles of my left upper back, neck and shoulder. Both these symptoms did not occur pre-MP.
I believe these muscle spasms indicate that the curvature in my cervical spine is slowly being resolved. And the bones in the back of my neck do feel less odd to me. 
Belinda wrote:
Palliative measures may be needed while members are on the MP. We recommend members work with their medical professionals to determine their need for sleep aids, pain meds and anti-depressants. Like the other measures, chiropractic or osteopathic therapies may play a role in keeping pain and symptoms of immunopathology tolerable.
My experience using these therapies goes back more than 20 years, long before the diagnosis of my Th1 disease. My case challenged several practitioners because, no matter how well my body responded to the therapy initially, my symptoms eventually returned.
Using the MP to treat the bacterial cause of disease and manual therapy to alleviate symptoms helped me cope.. initially with my disease and then with the immunopathology of recovery. I no longer have a short leg or the slight curve in my spine that once showed on my skeletal x-rays.
I guess time will tell for you, but I wouldn't hesitate to seek this sort of treatment to alleviate problems along the way. (For instance, I used to cough ribs out of place, which made breathing painful.) I would expect your adjustments to "hold better" later, as you progress in your recovery, but it may take a long time.
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Add: see PAIN CONTROL and re asking Doc re TENS machine. and if Doc has determined your pain medication is safe for you to take, it is not contraindicated on the MP.. We do not recommend the routine use of aspirin.
Lidocaine patch has brought relief to a Member.
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MrsKeeper
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun Sep 17th, 2006 02:30 |
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Thanks Chris and Meg,
I have a great PT who did wonders for my lower back about 10 months ago so I'm encouraged she will be able to help me now. She understands the limitations of the FM patient and doesn't push things too far too fast.
I learned from past escapades that doing the exercises is mandatory to success. And, Meg, when you wrote "consider your shoulder pain a signal Herx symptom" it made my little heart smile with pleasure to think that my body IS herxing. Herxing = killing bugs = fighting to get better and not always just getting worse. Hooray!!
November 2006 Add: I have noticed that using my TENS unit and, especially, more frequent dosing with Benicar has been more useful against the pain. I'm sure that is the better way to go.
Feb 2007 add:
For what it's worth... I too came down with "frozen shoulder" after being on the MP for awhile. No injury and in both shoulders. Physical therapy helped some, more frequent dosing of Benicar helped, and the use of my TENS unit for pain was very helpful.
I've been on an abx break for a month now and the shoulders have freed up quite a bit... hmm, definitely a pathogen connection there wouldn't you say?
May 2007 add:
I found the TENS unit helped me. I've had the best success with the physical therapy I've been in over a number of months now. I haven't had to use the TENS unit for weeks for pain and my range of motion is much better.
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Reenie
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Posted: Sun Sep 17th, 2006 16:26 |
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Meg,
"Adhesive capsulitis" sounds like the label used to describe adhesions and scar tissue or fibrotic tissue resulting from injury and/or chronic inflammation.
Janice, Leanne,
I've also had something similar to a partially 'frozen shoulder,' like Meg, but it's resolved on its own on the MP as well. Some of my "shoulder" problem actually resides in my back, stemming from an injury originating underneath my shoulder blade or "wing." 
The only sort of "therapy" I've done for it for the past several years has been that when I go to the Chiropractor, 2x/week, while I wait for her to enter the room, I lie on the table, on my back, arms fully extended over my head.
When I used to do this, my left arm wouldn't touch the table, and oftentimes, due to pain and muscle spasm, I would recoil my left arm to a more comfortable position, but I would go back to trying to stretch out that arm until the Chiropractor would enter. I could never get that arm to touch the table until very recently.
Now, my left arm, although not totally pain free, (yet/still) my range of motion is nearly 100% Last edited on Sun Sep 17th, 2006 16:27 by Reenie
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patrickburke
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Posted: Sun Sep 17th, 2006 17:39 |
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I have suffered from an intermittent painful frozen left shoulder for over 15 years, it even sometimes spread into my neck restricting my head movement. I have not had full range of motion in all that time.
I have had herx in that region and now have full range of motion and also can now painlessly raise my left hand all the way up behind my back with no pain what so ever.
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Sarcoidosis/lungs; Ph1 May05; Ph2 Jun05; Ph3 Dec05; No ABX 2/08; No D tests; covered since 6/04; Noirs off 6/07; Min light avoidance| Pat's Story|
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Grant
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2006 22:21 |
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First my wife, then I experienced a sudden 'frozen shoulder' ... She went through some chiro and PT and ultrasound therapies and has regained most of her mobility. Mine came on suddenly a while later and it is slowly but steadily resolving. BTW she's still on phase one, I'm on phase two about to start three.
Grant: Beginning Phase Three Update
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Sarcoidosis/lungs RBBB MP 01/04 Ph2 04/06; Ph 3 10/06 125D70 25D25 (Oct 06) break 01-03/08, NoIRs
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Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Oct 5th, 2006 23:34 |
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| In conjunction with adjusting your MP meds My immune response / symptoms are too strong. What should I do? .. Any time that your symptoms are going past tolerable: please check the precautions and the options one at a time to assess: do not hesitate to use any of the adjustments suitable to you.
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geow
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 19:40 |
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| I found a UK website that claims to be able to treat frozen shoulder using the Niel-Asher Technique but the closest practioner in the US in in Virginia. They sell a do it yourself version. If anyone is familiar with this method I would appreciate hearing about their experience.
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FM CFS hypothyroid Hytrin Cytomel 25D 7.4(Mar09) Xyrem Ph1Aug05 ModPh2Oct05 P2 May06 Ph3Aug06 Stg5Jun09 NoIRs occ outings covered
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 23:39 |
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Geow,
Most people have an immune system which is functional enough to deal with incidents of localized parasitic inflammation, especially since that healing is accelerated by heat, and mechanical stress (to break up the calcifications and intra-cellular biofilm exoskeletons) (eg: the chiropractic 'ultrasound machine').
The problem is that those who are symptomatically ill, already have an immune system which is no longer able to cope, or heal. Those folk need to deal with the underlying pathogens first.
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Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Oct 26th, 2007 21:35 |
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| When a shoulder is painful, it's important to do gentle range of motion exercises 2-3 times a day to maintain flexibility and prevent frozen shoulder.
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