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CLefelt
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| Joined: | Sun Oct 24th, 2004 |
| Location: | New Jersey, USA |
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Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 14:04 |
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I started suffering from acute esophagitis after taking oral doxycycline for Lyme Disease in 2001. This has been much improved over the last year.
Last night, however, after my third dose of Quercetin, which I took after dinner, I experienced familiar heartburn for most of the night.
Has anyone had similar problems with Q? Is it too acidic or something for people with this particular sensitivity? I'd like to continue taking it to help alleviate herxing, but not if there's a possibility that it will incite my old esophagitis problem. I did a Google search and couldn't find anything relevant under "side effects",so it might all be a coincidence.
Thanks for any input.
Carol
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Lyme Bartonella CFS FM Chly Pneu; Klonopin Florinef Lexapro TriEst Prog 10/04: 25D=9 1,25D=70 4/05 4/06: 25D=6.2 1,25D=20.9 8/06:25D=<7 1,25=13; Mino 11/36/04 2Abx 3/19/05 3Abx 4/27/06
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Aussie Barb
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
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Posted: Thu May 19th, 2005 15:02 |
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Hi Carol
re Quercetin: Paulalbert says "I think I have found a brand of Quercetin that works for me: "Solaray Non-Citrus Quercetin":
http://www.good-earth.com/solaray-quercetin-500-mg--90-capsules.html
It contains essentially the same stuff as the Jarrow Formulas, but for some reason it just doesn't give me the GI problems the JF did."
The other thing is to take it with food each time.. see if it makes any difference..
Aussie Barb has esophageal herxing as separate to the Quercetin....
Barb ...
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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ava
Member
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Posted: Fri May 20th, 2005 00:22 |
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esophageal herxing?
Hmmm, never thought about that, but I find that very often the benicar causes a lot of heartburn.
Which makes me wonder if Tums is the right thing to take, come to think of it, since it has calcium, just dawned on me;
maybe baking soda would be better?
Thanks
Ava
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Victoria: CFS since mono+ 37 yrs ago; endometriosis; osteopenia. high chol/trigl/cr protein; Ben 40mg Q8H 10/04/04| mino 11/15| 8/14/04: 25D=24 1,25D=45| Did over, 25D=7 now; finished phase 2; just moved to Mexico from Georgia US
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team (on leave)
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 02:47 |
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Ava,
If Benicar seems to be causing a contact heartburn, be sure to take it with plenty of water and remain in an upright position for 1/2 hr after swallowing it.
If you think that Benicar is causing heartburn due to the Herxheimer reaction, it is okay to take TUMS. Although they are high in calcium, just calculate the amount of calcium in your diet and be sure not to exceed 1200-1500mg (depending on your age) per day.
You can also ask your doctor what remedy he would suggest to relieve intolerable heartburn. Baking soda is high in sodium and would be okay if you are not on a low sodium diet.
Best,
Meg
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Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician.
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jcwat101
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| Joined: | Tue Jul 20th, 2004 |
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Posted: Sat May 21st, 2005 21:47 |
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If you think Benicar irritates, you could also put it inside a capsule. I had some I ordered from Needs 800-634-1800, the large size, and they fit in nicely. I've been told the capsule doesn't dissolve until it reaches the small intestines.
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 1/05:22/6 9/05:1,25D=12 10/06:22/8, 4/07:25/<4 chewed Ben. 40mg q8h; Mod. P2: 2/23/05, P2: 4/06; P3: 1/1/07
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CLefelt
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sun Oct 24th, 2004 |
| Location: | New Jersey, USA |
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 13:08 |
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Thanks, Joyce.
The Solray Q that I have is a powder inside a capsule. I've stopped it for a while, and might try it again in a few days, taking it with a lot of water.
Carol
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Lyme Bartonella CFS FM Chly Pneu; Klonopin Florinef Lexapro TriEst Prog 10/04: 25D=9 1,25D=70 4/05 4/06: 25D=6.2 1,25D=20.9 8/06:25D=<7 1,25=13; Mino 11/36/04 2Abx 3/19/05 3Abx 4/27/06
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paulalbert
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 16th, 2004 |
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 14:43 |
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You didn't say how long after dinner you took Q. If it was any longer than 1/2 hour, I might suggest taking Q with food.
I'm don't wish to quibble with the other advice offered here (particularly Meg's whose experience I defer to), but I'm not sure that taking something alkaline (tums, baking soda, etc.), which will neutralize stomach acid, will help you digest and assimilate Q.
My gastroenterologist once told me that a lot of gastroenterological disorders were caused by not enough stomach acid. Maybe try taking Q with your meals, which can be naturally acidic, and see if that changes matters.
As for the Benicar, I think it can be taken with food so long as there's no Magnesium in the food.
Paul
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Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / Bacteriality
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DaveW
inactive member
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Posted: Sun May 22nd, 2005 16:20 |
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Hi Carol,
Is your quercetin pure? Solaray also produces quercetin with other ingredients that could exascerbate the problem.
Regarding heartburn and acid reflux: One of my major symptoms many years ago, was gastro-paresis (or, slow stomach emptying).
When food sits in your stomach too long, the stomach responds by pumping in more acid (in an effort to digest the contents). The effect is an overly acidic stomach. This becomes especially apparent when one lays down. It is also more apparent when the stomach is empty, or when one eats a very small amount.
I had two gastric emptying studies (to measure my stomach emptying time). The first was without medication. The second was with double the maximum recommended dose of prepulsid. The motility drug made no difference at all. The Docs were baffled. It took approx 15 hours for a meal to pass through my stomach. I also had low level inflammation in the walls of my stomach that they could not explain.
I suspect that the autonomic nervous system can also be dysregulated by CWD which affects the peristaltic (sp?) contractions that moves food through the digestive system. In any case, a lot of us seem to have motility problems (which may be implicated in the hyper-acidity).
I learned to have some control over the hyper-acidity problems with the following measures: Keeping carbs lower - especially in the evening. Keeping citrus, spicey and tomato based foods lower, and sleeping with a large pillow.
When the symptoms became really bad, I found the acid was controlled very well with famitodine (available as Pepcid AC) and ranitidine (also available over the counter, but I can't recall the name). These drugs take about 1/2 hour to take effect, but reduce stomach acid by about 70% for many hours. They are very effective.
The most potent acid controller I ever used was called prilosec (or, losec). It blocked the proton pump that pumps the acid, with one dose reducing stomach acid by about 90%. At my worst, two of these still could not get my acid under control.
I found that calcium based products or foods, provided immediate relief (by neutralizing stomach acid), but often resulted in a rebound effect (or, even more acid a couple hours later).
These problems were major for me for about three years, but then seemed to subside somewhat on their own. Now that I am on the MP, I am often threatened or plagued by high acidity again in fluctuating cycles (so I am quite convinced it is herx).
I try to manage the hyperacidity with diet alone, but when it gets really bad (such as waking up at night - burping up hot burning acid, I take a Pepcid AC, (and sometimes a little bit of calcium to have immediate effect), along with some water. This works well, and permits me to go back to sleep without further problems.
I can also feel the higher acidity that results from taking quercetin. When I can tell I am vulnerable, I take it with meals.
I recently ran out of quercetin. I will order more, but cannot say that I have missed it in a major way. The jury is till out. When I add it back in, I suspect I will have a greater understanding of its effects (good and bad).
Anyway, for what it's worth - that's my story! I hope that it may be of some help.
Regards,
- DaveW
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MP Aug14/04,Pre-MP D=19.6,1,25D=37 ratio 1.89 P2>12/27/04.Back to P1 fall/05.Back to P2 05/06. 21 yrs neuro-lyme not dx til 11/05. OlmesTR 40 mg/7hrs. Major: Weakness,IBS-C,pain,bad sleep,anxiety,depression,cognitive focus,memory,CMV,epilepsy & osteo
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team (on leave)
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 01:11 |
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Paul and Dave have provided some excellent information and advice about gastric hyperacidity and poor gastric motility. I would like to add some information about why eating a low carbohydrate diet reduces gastric reflux.
According to Dana Carpender, who has written several books on lowcarb dieting:
"Proteins digest in the stomach, in an acid medium, while carbohydrates digest in the small intestine, in an alkaline medium. This means that eating the two together can trap undigested carbohydrates in your stomach, waiting for proteins to digest - and those carbohydrates can start to ferment in your stomach, leading to indigestion and heartburn. No fun. This is one of the reasons that many people find that reflux clears up on a low carb diet."
Best,
Meg
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Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician.
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CLefelt
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Sun Oct 24th, 2004 |
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Posted: Mon May 23rd, 2005 17:28 |
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Thanks to Paul, Dave and Meg--
You've all given me a lot to think about. I haven't been troubled with heartburn since I stopped the Quercetin, though I'd like to start it again and see what happens. I'm sure it's pure Q, and I did take it right after eating.
I try to eat a low carb diet, but I'm not always successful. I guess it's "lower" carb. But eating low carb makes sense and I'll be more diligent. I eat only whole grains (my latest favorite is 100% whole wheat matzoh), and I have trouble finding low carb, no D lunches. Right now I pretty much stick to no D yogurt, banana and nuts; or matzoh with hummus; or vegetable soup. Not exactly low carb. I also eat sprouted wheat bread, but that too isn't low carb.
My original attack was horrendous, and I think it occurred because the Doxycycline burned my esoophagus. It took over a year on Nexium and Reglan to heal. So right now I don't think the heartburn is part of herxing, though I never know.
Again, thank you all for your help.
CarolLast edited on Mon May 23rd, 2005 17:30 by CLefelt
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Lyme Bartonella CFS FM Chly Pneu; Klonopin Florinef Lexapro TriEst Prog 10/04: 25D=9 1,25D=70 4/05 4/06: 25D=6.2 1,25D=20.9 8/06:25D=<7 1,25=13; Mino 11/36/04 2Abx 3/19/05 3Abx 4/27/06
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